I'm looking for help with a clients request. They would like a two sided card I've designed to be sent to a printer with 4 up on a larger sheet, in the form of a pdf. I found a suggestion elsewhere to import pdfs made of the original single document file and just place them onto the larger sheet. This doesn't seem to take into account that the job is two sided printing, as only the front side of the pdf import is showing up. (I'm 'Placing' the file as I don't see another import option other than xml. Does anyone have any suggestions, short of dropping a bunch of money on 'Imposer' programs?
Cheers and Thanks!
darryl
Help Please, Ganging 4 up two sided...Unless the printer specifically asks you to do otherwise you should never send pre-imposed files. Imposition is the printer's job, and only he is in a position to know exactly how it should be set up for the printing conditions. He may want to run this as work and turn, putting front and back on the same plates, or he may want to make two sets of plates. A lot depends on the specifics of the job.
Help Please, Ganging 4 up two sided...Thanks for the response and I agree, but in this case it is what has
been asked for....
Do you know how to achieve it?
Thanks
Show the import options when you place the PDF and you'll have a choice of pages.
But I STRONGLY urge you to check with the printer before you do this. It's a lot harder to undo an imposed file than to impose single pages.
Hi Seeinghuman,
I have to agree with Peter...as a printer myself I certainly wouldn't want imposed layouts. If the layouts have bleed just add crops to single layouts...you shouldn't have more than 3mm bleed and your crops shouldn't be longer than 3mm ...mostly when someone sends me artwork with all the priinter marks that their Adobe pdf maker has inserted I find it a pain to remove them...I use Pitstop-Pro to make adjustments to PDF layouts...you can't do everything but it helps to resolve problems in the preflight and prepress stages.
Some other things to watch for with other peoples artwok is the mixing of RGB, CMYK and Spot (PMS) colours all in the same layout...we can't make plates from that!...also, the lack of understanding when it comes to flattening PDF files, Transparent objects in files...in particular when they are to be printed digitally ...objects can end up surrounded with an opaque box or lines. ...worse of all are theose files where spot colours have been converted to CMYK in INdesing and they've forgotten to notice the colours above don't knock out the colours below..red and yellow make orange when orange isn't even in the layout.
I always say, a graphic designer is just a desktop publisher until they've done some time in the prepress room!
Hi Snap
Thanks for you comments. Makes me wonder how much is happening on your
end that 'visual' designers like myself have little knowledge of.
I'm especially interested in your comment around rgb colors and
elements mixed with cmyk and that inDesign may not be a good automated
place to make conversions. What of illustrator vector graphics that
are rgb originals and now placed in the inDesign file? Do I need to go
back to illustrator and change the colors? (Supplied artwork..)
Do you feel you have time to offer some guidance with this from end of
the process?
Indesign preflight, package and export to a resulting pdf... are they
not good indications of when there's issues?
Thanks all.
For offset, I would ask your client to get the press imposition first because as it was mentioned, you don't know how the printer is printing it, nor what kind of press he/she is using to even determine the specs yourself. 9i.e.: work-n-turn, work-n-tumble, gripper, etc.) The file sounds pretty simple (though I could be completely wrong), and if it were me I'd use the native file to imposition and supply a PDF from that. If it is a complicated card, well then, you got to do whatcha got to do, but mixing the components of color management (ID%26gt;PDF%26gt;ID%26gt;PDF%26gt;OUTPUT%26gt;PRESS) could be a bit tricky unless you have a one color - color separated PDF.
If this is digital, by all means, place the PDF files in the center of the desired page size and let 'er rip. Color on digital short run is usually generated toward ''pleasing color'' and the other variables don't apply as stingingly.
If you choose to place the PDF, you should have a ''show import options'' in your dialog. Select that and a secondary dialog will display, allowing you to choose the page to place.
Either way, for something like this, I don't feel you need to spend on imposition SW.
If you know the correct output profile for the print conditions, there should be no major problems with letting ID convert the colors to CMYK (spots will not be converted unless you do that through Ink Manager, and you should know that many spot to process conversions are none too good). The problem is if you deliver a mixed CMYK/RGB PDF (you've selected no color conversion) that needs to be separated. This generally applies, as Kathleen mentioned, to press output, not digital, but your digital jobs will probaly come out better, too if you stick to one color space and avoid internal CMYK-to-RGB-to-CMYK conversions in the printer.
Visual designing is a good term ...why?...because many feel they what you see on screen is what you get...kind of like pint to a colour, click and hey presto that look nice, lets use that colour...but sadly it's not how it should be done. Structured thinking in design is whats required. You need always to start somewhere and the RGB and CMYK palettes are NOT the right place! Think about this as developing a consistent image of and for?your client/customer. Do they have corporate colours already or are they just starting out in a new enterprise...prehaps even refurbishing all their marketing peices so they stand out and look consistent with all colour matching stationery, brouchures etc. You'rd be surprised at how many clients will come back t you time and time again just because you've always kept a consistent image going for them. Your client doesn't know anything about printing apart from what they print on their office printers. They don't know anythng about CMYK, RGB, PMS, resolution, DPI, LPI, colour separation, bleed etc.....they see what they have composed in Publisher or Word and think you can print exactly what they have...this couldn't be further from the reality of the printer's world!
You mentioned colour in AI and colour in IND ..add to that colour in PSD...none can give a true reflection on the final printed output. And without a starting point as a close referrence you reaaly won't have any idea of what the final ouput will look like.....digital verses offset? ...depends on how much was spent on the digital or offset output machinery..a good office or printery machine could cost from around $5,000 - 20,000...offset printer 100,000+....it's obious what sort of quality ouput one can expect to achieve based on that alone.
So what is the staring point we should all adhere to when choosing colours?...the virtual swatch library in AI, IND, PS? ...or the real physical swatch books like PANTONE MATCHING? ...YES!...that is it! Get yourself 2 PMS books, one for coated and the other for uncoated. Now you have a good staring point for determining what colours can be printed ..and within reason, don't assume that what you choose from in those swatch books is exactly what you will get in the final output with offset print or digital! Think about it, the stock used to print the swatches is not what you are using to print your client's job! That must be the first and foremost discussion you would have with your client when choosing the colours...make them understand this your they maybe unhappy about the final print! They should choose a paper stock ...you should be able to provide that as well, get alog to your paper suppliers and grab all their paper swatch books...then learn to read your customer cos some paper stocks are damn expensive..if they don't appear to have the funds to print their media peices on the most expensive stocks then only show then what you think they can affrd ...try commodity papers first!
Ok ..the basics....colour libraries are available in all Adobe designing programs...you should have no problems selecting colour palettes in either AI, INDD and PS. Just remember a few things, if you are printing PMS Spot on coated stocks choose SOLID COATED ...uncoated CHOOSE SOLID UNCOATED....never convert a spot colour to CMYK by changing to SPOT TO PROCESS ...this does not work and many people make that mistake! Always convert a spot colour directly to CMYK. Never convert an RGB colour to a PMS colour and then to a CMYK colour and exect to get a cosistent result. Always refer to PMS matching system book before anything else.
RGB images...never place an RGB image in IND and expect it to look the same even when you've exported to PDF and converted the CMYK in Acrobat Pro's Ink settings ...ALWAYS OPEN THE RGB IMAGE IN PHOTOSHOP AND CONVERT THERE....SAVE AS .PSD THEN USE 'PLACE' to insert into IND ...while you're in photoshop you can check you image's resolution and make any final adjustments.
I'm sure I haven't covered everything here ..it's impossible ...there is too much to write in one session...but I do hope that I have covered the basics to get any budding GD (Graphic Designer) upto speed with some good print ethics. Please ask ...if I can help I will do my best at least!
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